Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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Some context: http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … 7816#p7816
If I had made it another day or two, I was going to try to wipe out the first couple pages myself to show how ridiculously broken bruteforcing is. But it seems jwg has made the case for me (again).
He sounds pretty confident that his house can defend against at least $50k of tools, so barring a disconnect or a mistake, I'd say he's going to be on top until he gives up.
Ah, so it was josh? Kudos to him. I'm glad I dodged that massacre. Anyway, all the more reason for Jason to balance using fuel and/or wheelbarrows. As is, Josh can pick off anyone that gets above $50k and stay on top for quite a while.
I say broken because it looks like he's got some animals in the pits, which could only happen if someone reached his vault or (more likely, given the amount of art he has) someone bludgeoned his family.
Looks like he's been busy- last night, the top 8 were around $100k net worth, and now he's at $300k plus a ton of artwork whereas 2nd place is only at $50k. I don't know if his house being broken affects anything.
Ah, thanks!
protox13 wrote:Because I can bust me out some Ozymandias and say, "Look on my works, and despair!"
"Nothing beside remains.
Boundless and bare,
the lone and leveled houses
stretch far away..."
Appropriate, no?
Because baby, I want it all.
Now I'm imagining a mod that lets you explore houses in 3D, with Wolfenstein style sprites. Someone has to do this
.
If Jason wants to expand on this game and open up more (justifiable) revenue streams, this might be a good way to do it!
Drakol wrote:Thanks for the Answer - Just making sure. As Paintings seem like the only way to get rid of wealth currently...
buy tools, run into someone's house, run out
Or you can just buy high, sell low. More tedious though
Because I can bust me out some Ozymandias and say, "Look on my works, and despair!"
I've reset a lot to tweak and refine my current layout, but the basic layout has killed anyone who has committed (granted, only one guy came well-equipped, but he wasted his tool and went in the wrong direction anyway).
My value was about 86k - no tools in vault. I did have 3 paintings tho.
Man, that sucks. I feel your pain: http://nooooooooooooooo.com/
protox13 wrote:iceman wrote:A bit off topic since I can't think of any games, but I really wanted the first word of this post to be "Listen!"...
I just know you're quoting a song here, but can't remember the name of it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seKaU-qQuts
Definitely one of my favorite songs... be sure to listen to the whole thing, since the middle-end is very moving.
Yes, I was moved to tears by the end. (Of joy, bordom, or insanity, I'm not saying.) Thank you for sharing such a gem.
Here's what I was thinking of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPy3cfxuKxk
DaVinci wrote:Noooooon. Get your house built up with non-deadly traps like path blockers and it's done. You won't get bounties.
They will find a way =P

Need to photoshop a slobbering pit bull in there
. Photoshop anyone?
I know I'm parroting myself here, but lowering the sell value of tools would much help alleviate both problems.
Bring bounty back to $200 which is enough money for beginning houses to kick off, while reduced tool prices would much more effectively and significantly prevent the house value from skyrocketing. When people die, it's $1000 from tool value (NOT the measly $200) that becomes problematic - and these tool values are not available to lower-end houses, who need boost the most. Hell, slash tool sell price to 1/4 and number of money from the starter kit robber would plummet from current $1050 (1000+50) to $450 (250+200).
Absolutely agree. The lower bounty is not making an appreciable dent in the money I'm accumulating.
SOME THINGS
CAN'T BE
REPLACED
For everything else, there's Mastercard.
Fuel is just going to spread brute forcing over several trips.
Maybe we're not using the same terminology here. Here's how I see these terms personally:
Brute forcing: Using an exorbitantly large amount of tools to cut through anything you happen to find in one go. Requires zero planning or thought, just a bunch of money.... but you usually make more than you spend anyway.
Scouting: Going into a house to acquire pieces of knowledge about that house, which you can later piece together to plan a heist. Especially repeated trips to explore. Scouting is actually already cost prohibitive because you have to repeatedly use the same tools on consecutive trips to get past initial traps. Brute forcing doesn't have that problem.
So when you say multiple trips are brute forcing, that's what I consider scouting. It's the more interesting play style and I think it should be encouraged.
I honestly believe you need all three.
Adding three new mechanics to the game is pretty heavy in terms of extending the learning curve.
Hmm, fair point; fuel does raise the threshold. However, a robber can still systematically throw enough money at a house across multiple trips until he finds the vault with little to no thought or planning behind it, which in my mind is just a variation of brute forcing. I guess what I'm trying to get at with the idea of heat is answering the fact that someone can still be sure of cracking any house, given enough time and money. I believe fearless robbers represent an inbalance, but maybe that's what Jason wants. Maybe a fuel surcharge and wheelbarrow burden are enough.
cbenny wrote:I love the change to bounty levels. For the first time my house lasted through the night, and it's because I didn't accidentally gain hundreds of thousands of dollars while afk.
But Jason has stated several times that you're supposed to be able to lose everything while not at the computer, part of the concept is to make you worry.
Yes, but it shouldn't be inevitable.
I‘m still getting about the same amount of money via tool drops- had to burn $10k in just one hour this morning in fact. I think a bounty of $100 or $200 would be fine, but maybe the house owner should receive only some of the tools a dead robber was carrying (say half or a quarter value with random tools, since dying a messy death would probably not leave everything you’re carrying intact), and/or reduce their resale value. Helps eliminate the problem of rich home owners having more tools than they know what to do with, too.
Concerning the recent ideas of fuel, noise, and heat.
Noise is interesting thematically; not sure how effective it would be. I think heat is the wrong approach because it discourages scouting, which is IMHO The Right Way™ to take down a house. I'm probably biased because it's my idea but I still think fuel is ideal.
I didn't explain fuel very well initially, so here is a spreadsheet to help explain the numbers. If you make a local copy you should be able to tweak things.
I honestly believe you need all three. Fuel is just going to spread brute forcing over several trips. As for heat, I think it encourages efficient scouting. Maybe forays less than 1 minute shouldn’t count towards your heat score, but anything longer should.
What mystifies me is when folks (and this is several) have the exit in sight and yet choose to detour into a pit bull they've drugged.
A bit off topic since I can't think of any games, but I really wanted the first word of this post to be "Listen!"...
I just know you're quoting a song here, but can't remember the name of it!
I think one of the main problem is that we haven't determined on clear activation condition for Big Heat yet.
Somebody builds a house with 10 doors (9 with dog and 1 with safe), but no commit gate, so I decide to run back to the entrance upon reaching wrong door and try again - each trip therefore takes about 20 seconds. About four times into doing this, I'm suddenly hit with 6 hour ban?
I have no problem with normal Heat that blocks re-try for certain amount of time depending on amount of step taken, tool etc. but Big Heat seems too arbitrary.
The point of Big Heat is to force effective scouting through some combination of skill and money, and study what you've learned in the increasing downtime between raids. If you can't think to bring a dozen drugged meats and defeat a $3.5 security system with $1k of meat on your second or third run, that's on you (and on the owner for such an unimaginative defense).
Even if a skillful or rich player only gets close to the vault, they are committed after several runs and spending some money, so a homeowner must respond or risk losing his vault and/or wife once the heat dies down. He's still screwed if he's on "vacation" or lacks the money or imagination to respond.
The only problem with this - is that it encourages Home Owners to create traps they know will take a very long time - So that if you even have Five tools, you will not make it to the end. Though, no one is really that OCD with this game... right?
You can still make multiple trips (fewer with more tools, or more with fewer tools) within the space of an hour. Again, a skilled, persistent, and sufficiently equipped (and lucky) robber will still prevail.
Hm okay so the start is 50 but successful robberies still add 500 and kills 1000? Guess it's not too bad then, but still, it hampers the playstyle I enjoy the most.
Seconded. Guess it helps encourage folks to go out a bit more and rob, but that's not my playstyle. Besides, it's not as much of a problem to go to sleep and then wake up again with $20-25k from bounties as it was during launch- I started over again last night and got all of $0 from robbers. ![]()
EDIT: Still doesn't address dropped tools, which helps bolster the income of well-designed houses, so I guess it's not as big a deal.
No problem! This game makes people super-paranoid. I see patterns that aren't there all the time, even from my god's eye view where I can see all the tapes.
We'll be sure to forward our therapists' bills to you, then! ![]()
GoogleFrog wrote:Maybe we need a "put up for adoption" button because their mother is dead and their father is a horrible parent.
Not to mention the fact that they live in a terrible neighbourhood. My house keeps getting robbed.
If a social worker saw where these kids have been living they would get taken away for sure.
The social workers in this world probably see plenty of these kids on their way to and from robbing strangers' homes